My artistic ability is pretty much nil but I wholeheartedly support this idea. After getting back into Smalltalk after several years of OS X and iPhone programming it's not a stretch to say the user experience leaves something to be desired.<div> <br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Philip Weaver <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philmaker@gmail.com">philmaker@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica;min-height:14.0px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13px">I want to find at least one individual on this mailing list who has interest in contributing to UI mockups for Lively's future and to help keep conversation related to this alive daily.</span></p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica;min-height:14.0px"><br></p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica">Dan, I very much understand how drawing Lively mockups in Google Docs might be interpreted. I used to work at Apple and I understand the concept "not invented here." I also understand the preference to develop Lively and Smalltalk directly within itself.</p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica;min-height:14.0px"><br></p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial">Yesterday evening I watched "The Pixar Story" on television. John Lassiter explained "Artists challenge the programmers. Programmers inspire the artists." This might be a challenge. Mockups I create will develop in Google Drawings until Lively becomes an application for vector illustration. Google Drawings does export to SVG.</p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial"> </p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial">Some people look at an empty canvas and see nothing. Others look at Lively and don't understand. I want to help them understand today.</p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;min-height:15.0px"><br></p> <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial">I want to find at least one individual (out of 98) on this mailing list who has interest in contributing to UI mockups for Lively's future and to help keep conversation related to this alive daily.</p> <div><div></div><div class="h5"> <br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Dan Ingalls <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:danhhingalls@gmail.com" target="_blank">danhhingalls@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>Hi, Phil -</div> <div><br></div> <div>Although I haven't said a word until now, it's only because I was travelling and am still juggling a bunch of different responsibilities.</div> <div><br></div> <div> I really like what you did.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I've been trying to juggle the notions of worlds and menus and palettes for the many possible modes of use of lively, and I think that tab-based palette panels are ideal. Integrating this with browsing is also very cool.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I made a run at common code for windows and tabs at one point, which should reduce the work to merely making palettes work with windows, except it appears that code didn't make it through one of the windows updates. My theory was that tabbed panels are exactly like windows from the standpoint of the content, and the only real difference is in the behavior of the two kinds of tabs. If I get some time, I'll get this part working again.</div> <div><br></div> <div>The other thought I had, which I've voiced here before, is that we need to make it a primary goal to have Lively be the vehicle of choice for us to do such mockups and presentations. It was this commitment that made Squeak into the wonderful media tool that it is. Furthermore, it's just not that hard. If we just had 3 or 4 of us working on it for a month I think we could reach a major plateau. </div> <div><br></div> <div>So I guess this could be a companion message to yours -- folks who want a no-coding project could help you out, and those who want some simple (*) coding projects could help make Lively into a better composition environment.</div> <div><br></div> <div>And let's not forget the real challenge:</div> <div> - to be able to build Phil's vision faster in LK than to mock it up elsewhere ;-)</div> <div><br></div> <div> - Dan</div> <div><br></div> <div>(*) truly these are simple tweaks for the most part -- nothing like getting WebDAV or SVG working. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll post a starting task list in the next few days</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite">Seventy-eight people are subscribed to this mailing list for Lively. Eighteen people are subscribed to the digest. I want to find at least one individual who has interest in contributing to UI mockups for Lively's future and to help keep conversation related to this on this mailing list alive daily. No coding involved necessarily and it ought to be fun and rewarding.</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite">I made an effort to get started over at Google Drawings - Google Drawings already supports live collaboration. At some point these drawings could be exported as SVG and imported into Lively worlds. I'm also currently working on a design document to explain some of these drawings and related concepts.</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://tinyurl.com/lively-panel/" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/lively-panel/</a></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite">Thanks,</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite">Philip Weaver</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite"><br> _______________________________________________<br> lively-kernel mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:lively-kernel@hpi.uni-potsdam.de" target="_blank">lively-kernel@hpi.uni-potsdam.de</a><br> <a href="http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel" target="_blank">http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel</a></blockquote> <div><br></div> </div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> lively-kernel mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:lively-kernel@hpi.uni-potsdam.de" target="_blank">lively-kernel@hpi.uni-potsdam.de</a><br> <a href="http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel" target="_blank">http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br> </div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> lively-kernel mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:lively-kernel@hpi.uni-potsdam.de">lively-kernel@hpi.uni-potsdam.de</a><br> <a href="http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel" target="_blank">http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div>