Hi Steve,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Wart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steve@wart.ca" target="_blank">steve@wart.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div>Yes I noticed that you've done a huge amount of work. I asked about the IDE because that is how I conceptualize the object model. Once I understand that hopefully all the rest of it will come together for me.</div> <div> </div> <div>One thing that Apple insists on when defining the user experience for a new application is to come up with a clear statement of purpose. Not only what it is its intended user base (casual, professional, etc.), but also what it is explicitly not intended for. What *can't* Lively do?.</div> </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'd also consider the role of a user. Is the user primarily a consumer of content or a producer of content? Lively allows both at the same time. Sadly, most people in the world today are primarily consumers and not programmers. I don't have a final answer here but read on further below. Intended user base is indeed worthy of discussion.</div> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div>I've seen a couple of posts from Dan on his vision for Lively, but I still wonder, is it an educational environment, or is it something people can use to build commercial quality client-server applications?</div> </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have interest in pursuing both of these but lean toward the latter, commercial development: I want to focus on whatever goals will help sustain and provide funding for this project. I wish and hope that Lively will become a disruptive technology to transform web development and web graphics creation. 1. Browser brings the history and bookmarks. 2. The toolkit brings it's own rendering and layout: whether it be the Lively Kernel or other. Web standards? Just say no. Use a canvas instead and your own toolkit. Also relating to graphics development: just say no to splicing raster images for web display: render them in Lively.</div> <div><br></div><div>So for intended user base maybe: 1. professional "web" developers but retrain them, 2. education</div><div><br></div><div>Some of the early Lively collateral discusses making web programming simpler without HTML, CSS, DOM, etc. The problem has been that Lively has not had enough layout support to realistically compete or replace HTML and DOM.</div> <div><br></div><div>Philip</div> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div>Smalltalk evolved in rather unexpected ways I think. I don't think I'm looking for Lively on Rails, but I am interested in applications that appeal to mainstream development needs.</div> <div> </div><font color="#888888"> <div>Steve<br></div></font><div><div></div><div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Philip Weaver <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philmaker@gmail.com" target="_blank">philmaker@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:#ccc 1px solid">Emailing from phone. Back online in a day or so. Existing mockups<br>cover more than ide. They are maybe 10% complete and mainly for<br> inspiration. An overview at this point and existing ide mockups are<br>not necessarily accurate. Want to explore things like: zoom to morph,<br>zoom to selection, morph navigation via the main column browser,<br>multiple selection in a column stacks views in the next column,<br> contextual menu as a single column column browser maybe for zoom to<br>morph. Existing mockups need more simplification and some other<br>solutions.<br></blockquote></div><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br>