This topic from Steve deserves more discussion. Please discuss.<br><br>Philip<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Wart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steve@wart.ca">steve@wart.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>One thing that Apple insists on when defining the user experience for a new application is to come up with a clear statement of purpose. Not only what it is its intended user base (casual, professional, etc.), but also what it is explicitly not intended for. What *can't* Lively do?.</div>
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<div>I've seen a couple of posts from Dan on his vision for Lively, but I still wonder, is it an educational environment, or is it something people can use to build commercial quality client-server applications?</div>
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<div>Smalltalk evolved in rather unexpected ways I think. I don't think I'm looking for Lively on Rails, but I am interested in applications that appeal to mainstream development needs.</div>
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<div>Steve<br></div></font><div><div></div><div class="h5">
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Philip Weaver <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philmaker@gmail.com">philmaker@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>Hi
Steve,<br><br><div class="im">On Wed, Jun 23,
2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Wart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steve@wart.ca" target="_blank">steve@wart.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Yes I noticed that you've done a huge amount of work. I asked about
the IDE because that is how I conceptualize the object model. Once I
understand that hopefully all the rest of it will come together for me.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>One thing that Apple insists on when defining the user experience
for a new application is to come up with a clear statement of purpose.
Not only what it is its intended user base (casual, professional, etc.),
but also what it is explicitly not intended for. What *can't* Lively
do?.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I'd also consider the role of a
user. Is the user primarily a consumer of content or a producer of
content? Lively allows both at the same time. Sadly, most people in the
world today are primarily consumers and not programmers. I don't have a
final answer here but read on further below. Intended user base is
indeed worthy of discussion.</div><div class="im">
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>I've seen a couple of posts from Dan on his vision for Lively, but I
still wonder, is it an educational environment, or is it something
people can use to build commercial quality client-server applications?</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I have interest in pursuing both
of these but lean toward the latter, commercial development: I want to
focus on whatever goals will help sustain and provide funding for this
project. I wish and hope that Lively will become a disruptive technology
to transform web development and web graphics creation. 1. Browser
brings the history and bookmarks. 2. The toolkit brings it's own
rendering and layout: whether it be the Lively Kernel or other. Web
standards? Just say no. Use a canvas instead and your own toolkit. Also
relating to graphics development: just say no to splicing raster images
for web display: render them in Lively.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So for intended user base maybe: 1. professional
"web" developers but retrain them, 2. education</div><div><br></div><div>Some
of the early Lively collateral discusses making web programming simpler
without HTML, CSS, DOM, etc. The problem has been that Lively has not
had enough layout support to realistically compete or replace HTML and
DOM.</div>
<div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Philip</div></font><br>