[lively-kernel] R: Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?

[Robert Krahn]

I'm not very familiar with Amber but what I understand from the
documentation is that it tries to be very close to Pharo, providing most of
Pharo's API as well as a class browser that uses a node server for
compilation / saving Smalltalk / JS code.

For developing applications in Lively we adopted a more object-centric
approach that has the PartsBin as its central point [1] and does not rely
on writing code in classes. Developing an application basically means to
combine existing objects, change their look and behavior. This is done
interactively using different tools and combines visual interaction with
writing code. See [2] for an example.

Technically there is no problem to load Amber Smalltalk in Lively and write
Amber code that manipulates Lively worlds / objects. A proper integration,
however, requires more work. Tools like the ObjectEditor and System Code
browser need to support the Smalltalk syntax in order to allow using them
with the usual process. Of course, you can just develop Smalltalk code
interactively in a workspaces [3] but this won't give you the real "Lively
experience".

In the end it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to write
a conventional web app in Smalltalk you are probably better off using just
Amber. If you want to use Lively's GUI as well as the PartsBin concept with
Smalltalk then a proper integration makes sense (tool support, debugging
support, etc) and Amber might not be the best choice as Lively comes with
its own API and object system. A possible step brought up by Dan is to
create some kind of automatic Smalltalk view that would convert JS code
into Smalltalk when you browse it in the ObjectEditor, for example. At this
point we do not plan this kind of integration. However, if you want to
start this kind of project, you can be sure that we do very welcome it and
I would try to personally support it.

[1]
http://hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/publications/media/LinckeKrahnIngallsRoederHirschfeld_2012_TheLivelyPartsBinACloudBasedRepositoryForCollaborativeDevelopmentOfActiveWebContent_IEEE.pdf

[2] http://lively-kernel.org/other/how-to-create-a-comment-recorder.mov

[3]
http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-bookmarklets.xhtml


On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Andy Burnett <
andy.burnett at knowinnovation.com> wrote:

> Hi Lorenzo,
> It's great to know that I am not alone :-)
>
> Let's find out, from Robert, how far we can get with the current ST
> implementation, and the possibility of incorporating Amber.
>
> Cheers
> Andy
>
>
>
> On 25 Jul 2012, at 09:26, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo at edor.it> wrote:
>
>  Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> I am in the same situation as you: I am very proficient in ST so, please
> keep me informed about your projects and consider me as an other resource
> for any kind of projects.
>
>
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *Da:* lively-kernel-bounces at hpi.uni-potsdam.de [mailto:
> lively-kernel-bounces at hpi.uni-potsdam.de] *Per conto di *Andy Burnett
> *Inviato:* mercoledì 25 luglio 2012 15.13
> *A:* Robert Krahn
> *Cc:* lively-kernel
> *Oggetto:* Re: [lively-kernel] Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?
>
>
>
> Wow! Robert that is absolutely fantastic.
>
>
>
> I don't have anything against javascript, but being able to program in
> Smalltalk makes me so happy :-)
>
>
>
> OK, a couple of questions:
>
>    1. Is ir feasible for me to develop using Smalltalk, i.e. can I save
>    my code? If so, do I save the smalltalk, or the generated javascript
>    2. Just in very broad terms, would it be possible to include Amber, or
>    is it way too difficult?
>
>  Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Robert Krahn <robert.krahn at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> We do not use it for main development. I implemented a very simple ST
> compiler in 2009. It's by far not so advanced as Amber. You can use it by
> loading the module lively.SmalltalkParser (module('lively.SmalltalkParser'
> ).load();). See this demo world for more info:
> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-fun.xhtml
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andy Burnett <
> andy.burnett at knowinnovation.com> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>
> As I was digging around the code - trying to find SortedCollection - I
> noticed references to a Smalltalk parser.  Does this work? If so, how do I
> invoke it?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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