[lively-kernel] Fwd: LK ready for prototyping?

[Chip Nowacek]

I've thought about your response while I have been looking at other
platforms. My circumstances have changed and I need to build a prototype,
yes, but one that can be then refined and deployed on a large scale (as)
quickly (as possible).

I am not a professional developer. Whatever system I use I will have to
learn and likely figure out how to integrate with JS libraries. I wish I
had your experience. LK seems like the most natural choice - but only if I
can take what I build into production. The only other platform I am
considering at the moment is Amber Smalltalk. I want everything going on in
the browser and potentially use something like Firebase as a replicating
direct-to-client key store. I really don't want any logic on the server.
Oh, and I need some lightweight expert system on the client, too.

If you were me, what would you do?


On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Robert Krahn <robert.krahn at gmail.com>wrote:

> Lively is a wonderful environment for experimenting. Of course this
> depends on what you want to achieve but in my experience you are able to do
> quite complex things pretty fast.
>
> Take this demo for example:
>   result: http://lively-kernel.org/other/fuelDemoVideo1.mov
>   building it with wiring parts together:
> http://lively-kernel.org/other/fuelDemoVideo2.mov
>
> It is a rough visualization of a how a car driving along a given path that
> highlights the fuel stations the car can reach with its fuel level that
> changes as it drives along.
>
> (The purpose of the demo was mainly to show how such a visualization can
> be created using a mix of graphical/textual programming and combining
> existing components, not the actual application itself)
>
> Creating the initial sketch (that was really running of course) was
> something that two people (that were very familiar with the system) did in
> the course of three hours. Pretty fast I guess. Tweaking things to look
> nicer and embedding ideas that came up in the process of building it took
> 2-3 days more.
>
> For the purpose of creating this interactive demo, Lively worked very
> well. However, important to mention is that this was *just a demo*. The
> application that came out of it not usable in the sense of a software
> product as you have to be careful of where to click etc. So a lot of issues
> related to the usability of the interface from the standpoint of an
> end-user were not addressed. Producing something like a "demo to be used by
> others" will definitely require *much* more time.
>
> Also consider that Lively / Webwerkstatt is used as a research environment
> as opposed to a stable development environment like Eclipse. Things look
> rough. Interfaces change. Tools evolve. We are currently working on a
> version of Lively that is more stable than what you find in Webwerkstatt
> (see the other messages on this list), however, we are not able to give any
> support guarantees.
>
> I agree with Jens, take a couple of hours time and try to dig in the
> system and produce at least a tiny part of what you have in mind and see if
> this feels right.
>
> I would love to see a new system build in/with Lively :)
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Jens Lincke <
> jens.lincke at hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chip,
>>
>> did you play with it for 2 hours you to try it out, or what are your
>> experiences yet? It depends what kind of demo app is required... A mobile
>> app?
>>
>> I think you could try, but be aware that it can be easy if you do similar
>> things others have been done, but it can get messy when you want to go
>> where no one has gone before you in lively ;-)
>>
>> Best,
>> Jens
>>
>> Am 10.09.2012 um 15:59 schrieb Chip Nowacek <chip at twostewards.com>:
>>
>> Should I take the silence as: "Stay away from Lively" ?
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Chip Nowacek <chip at twostewards.com>
>> Date: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 6:11 PM
>> Subject: LK ready for prototyping?
>> To: The Lively Kernel Mailing List <lively-kernel at hpi.uni-potsdam.de>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm sure I am less than 1/10th the programmer of the least on this list.
>> I hope you'll forgive the my rather lowly skill set.
>>
>> That said, I have a desperate need to create a demo app for investors and
>> production developers. In your estimation, is LK ready for that type of
>> work? I will ask about production readiness later.
>>
>> While I'm asking, anyone interested in helping out with (what I think
>> will be) an important application with long legs? The domain model, 4
>> years in the works, is pretty stable. It needs a compelling,
>> highly-interactive front end (thus the LK question). In broad terms, I am
>> looking to build a cognitive tool that deals with human relationships.
>> It'll also need a mobile app at some point.
>>
>> Thank you humbly,
>>
>> Chip
>>
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>
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