[General] King of Lively part II : LIE and CHEAT
pfraser at spatialmedia.com
Wed Nov 11 22:06:19 CET 2009
Hi Steve (and list -apologies if this message turns up more than once
-am suffering email problems today)
You probably didn't read the rambling part of my post -I don't blame you.
now (or has run, and nearly runs now) on the Java platform, using the
have been required to make it run (as for the various browsers), but
afaik it is regular LK (yes -lively team?).
There is no LK Java code required (Batik comes with a sample viewer that
includes Rhino). I don't know how fast Batik is, but Rhino is almost
there is an upside...
The key thing about the Rhino/Batik "browser" is that it *can be
modified*. Sure you could modify Firefox to make it more LK friendly,
but you would have to be able to push your changes back into Firefox to
The lieing and cheating angle involves the lie: "it runs in any
browser" and many cheats: (find the hot spots and optimise them in
java -or fix problems like the svg color api rather than living with
them) -whilst still preserving "don't get caught" by maintaining
it would absolutely be possible to deliver a fast, consistent Lively
Kernel on the JRE.
Keep in mind that there is no LK support yet for IE, and that is a
rather big hole which would be extremely hard to plug natively. If IE
Lively will require a plugin to work, it might as well be an already
widely deployed plugin that offers this magic cheat-ability.
Last I heard, someone on the Lively team (Krzysztof Palacz I think) was
working on the Java version, but intriguingly -he was using the new
scene-graph libraries rather than Batik. If this work has stalled, it
would be good to know so lurkers and shirkers might give it a go.
Ok, so you may have appreciated all this Steve and and still didn't
agree. Fair enough :-)
You also mentioned:
>>Very few people will want to build entire"sites" on Lively but parts
of it should be widely adopted.<<
Personally, I can't see the value in using part of Lively. It's value is
as a complete self-contained solution. I don't really want to build
"sites" with Lively -I want to make and share stuff on a simple little
"virtual computer in a web page" (like an XO -except free, and able to
ship down a tcp/ip connection ;-) )
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