[lively-kernel] Time for another run at the fence?

[Philip Weaver]

This response is rough because I'm busy moving until later in the week. I
hope I'll be able to resubmit a more considered response later this week...

   - What excites you about the Lively Kernel?

- the malleability of the environment: sculpting instead of "writing code"
- the potential for a cleanly implemented web stack, and the flexibility to
be able to use alternatives to HTML and CSS.

   - How much time do you currently put into LK?

I put in more than 1000 coding hours last spring creating demos, reporting
bugs, fixing bugs, experimenting with polish in Lively. Had a great time!
The coding I currently do with Lively is lottery analysis for the purpose of
funding to help accelerate adoption with promotion, fund contests, hire
additional designers (including myself).

   - How much time do you think you could put into LK if you got fired up?

Finding a small grant or winning the lottery would fire me up. Then I would
work with Lively 8+ hours most every day. (I am not really trying to be
amusing here.) :-)

   - What are the top 3 or 4 things you would like to do for LK ?

- create a demo project which mimics a typical slick vertically scrolling
webpage and illustrate how it's more malleable than using HTML and CSS.
(rollover link effects, rollover menu effects, etc. )
- create documentation for Lively ENTIRELY as code examples and snippets and
integrate with the ide
- enhance and polish the ide. Jens and Robert are doing amazing work but
much more usability and polish are needed for me to want to switch to using
the ide.
- there's more stuff: these may not be my top three: I'll need to revisit.

   - What are the top 3 or 4 things you would like someone else to do for
   LK?

       (Dan I need to come back to these : I do like the one's you have
listed...)
       Get collaboration (multiple Morphic hands) working
       Add a nice database interface (JSON/Java based: dovetaildb,
persevere, etc.)
       Separate the Canvas and SVG layers and make Canvas fast
       Remove LK's dependence on XML in favor of JSON
       Create a wikipedia entry for Lively

   - Any other random comments you'd like to make, or links to share?

About me: Two significant influences on my software career and creative
skills: 1. performing magic as a child 2. English studies in college
instilled how to compose clean, disciplined, pretty code. I am an author.

Random comment: LK could use a benefactor.

More later,
Philip Weaver

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Dan Ingalls <DanHHIngalls at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good People of Lively -
>
> Several forces are converging, and it makes me want to see who's
> really out there these days, and who might be interested in pushing
> Lively up onto the next plateau.
>
>
> Water over the dam
> It's been five months since I've been really active with Lively.  I
> might have been a bit more active except that time included a job
> change (from Sun to SAP).  It is not yet clear how much of my energy
> I can devote to Lively in my new job, but it's a huge improvement in
> energy flow to be away from the JavaFX juggernaut.  Finally, as I had
> hoped, we now have Lively moved to neutral territory at HPI where the
> climate is truly enthusiastic.
>
>
> Let's have a party
> If you all lived in the neighborhood, I'd have us over for beer and
> pizza so we could get to know each other, find out what each is most
> interested in, and plot some next steps that could be fun for all of
> us.  Presumably we're all on the mailing list because there is
> something about Lively that got us excited, and chances are that if
> we work together a bit (or even just discuss it for a while), we'll
> come up with a merry prank or two.  So let's go around the room once
> and, even if you think you've already done this, send in a message
> that briefly tells...
>
> What excites you about the Lively Kernel?
> How much time do you currently put into LK?
> How much time do you think you could put into LK if you got fired up?
> What are the top 3 or 4 things you would like to do for LK ?
> What are the top 3 or 4 things you would like someone else to do for LK?
> Any other random comments you'd like to make, or links to share?
>
>
> My two cents
> Just to break the ice, I'll start off with my intro.  At first I
> thought I shouldn't do this in case it would influence others, but
> then I thought I would go ahead anyway for pretty much the same
> reason.  Go figure ;-).
>
> What excites you about the Lively Kernel?
>        I grew up doing physics experiments in my basement.  To me
> computers are exquisite laboratories, but there is no mainstream
> software that lets you play around and do experiments.  Things are
> actually  worse than 30 years ago when every computer came with
> Basic.  An entire generation is growing up thinking all you can do is
> run Windows and maybe program Java in Eclipse if you want to spend a
> year or two learning.  To me the Lively Kernel is a chance to build
> something like Squeak -- a *simple* live graphical composition
> environment with everything programmable -- and make it as accessible
> in every browser, and able to share our creations with everyone as
> web pages.
> How much time do you currently put into LK?
>        About 1 hour a day (more today ;-)
> How much time do you think you could put into LK if you got fired up?
>        2 hours a day, more if I can make it relevant at SAP (working
> on that ;-)
> What are the top 3 or 4 things you would like to do for LK ?
>        Make it the best and coolest tool to put together a slide show
>                Then every time we give talks we will be advertising LK
>                Also subsumes the goal of simple web site creation
>        Make an Open App Store
>                LK runs on iPhone, iPad, and may other cell phones
>                So we could do our own App Store right now
>        Add more constraints -- connectors, physics modelling, etc
> What are the top 3 or 4 things you would like someone else to do for LK?
>        Get LK working with Google Docs and other popular systems
>        Remove LK's dependence on XML in favor of JSON
>        Separate the Canvas and SVG layers and make Canvas fast
>        Add a nice database interface.
>        Get collaboration (multiple Morphic hands) working
> Any other random comments you'd like to make?
>        I was going to add "Rewrite the whole system", but I don't
> think we need to do that just yet.  LK is good enough to do good
> things, and I think we need to create some fun for ourselves and some
> buzz on the outside.   I've got toms of other ideas, when the time
> comes ;-)
>
>
> Other good news
> Jens and Robert have been quiet, but they have not been idle.  In
> addition to their normal load of school work they have managed to
> recreate the Lively Kernel home at HPI, along with mail list,
> repository and other bits of forward-looking organization...
>        http://www.lively-kernel.org/
> They've also been doing some cool new work in LK, for example...
>
> http://www.lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/draft/ConnectExamples.xhtml
> And finally, Jens is about to offer a seminar at HPI in which student
> teams will choose and work on various Lively Kernel projects...
>
> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/ProjectSeminar2010/ProjectSeminarSlides.xhtml
> Hopefully we will hear more about this activity as soon as it starts up.
>
> I'm hoping the idea of Lively projects spreads to other universities.
> Ours is a system in which students can see how everything works,
> change it themselves, and experience real personal computing.  It's a
> good counter to the much heavier Java/Eclipse curriculum offerings.
>
>
> Y'all write back and tell us what you're up to
>
>        - Dan
> _______________________________________________
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> lively-kernel at hpi.uni-potsdam.de
> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel
>
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