[lively-kernel] Lively IDE Mockups

Steve Wart steve at wart.ca
Wed Jun 23 17:41:56 CEST 2010

Thanks for the encouragement.

I like the direction that you're taking with these, in particular the coding
screens. One of my ongoing problems with Smalltalk (in particular
VisualWorks) is being overwhelmed by different categorization concepts (even
when I mostly understand these things I spend far too much time fighting
with them).

What are the main organizational concepts in Lively? What are Areas,
Workspaces, Packages and Classes?

I am somewhat bemused by the way Javascript builds class-instance behaviour
on top of a prototype system (although it's been a while since I read much
about it, so I might be mistaken). Does Lively retain the idea of classes or
is it purely a prototype system?

A friend suggested that Lively might be a good environment to learn
Javascript but I'd like to have a better idea of how people manage
dependencies among various libraries. It seems that managing a pool of *.js
files also needs to represented. Does Lively let you mix and match other
Javascript libraries? If so, would it be possible to add visual tools to
help with this or is the fundamental browser model too restrictive for that?

Hopefully this isn't off topic or if I'm repeating FAQs. I think I might be
able to help visualize things better if I understood them a bit more.


On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Philip Weaver <philmaker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lawson,
> I am wanting to collaborate with a couple of people on UI mockups. But if
> you're also interested in coding now I'm sure that Dan, Robert, and Jens
> will find a way for you to contribute. I hope you're also interested in
> helping to re-imagine the user interface for Lively. Regardless I'll be sure
> to copy you on emails.
> Below is just a start but I'll explain soon what more I hope we accomplish:
> http://tinyurl.com/lively-panel/
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Lawson English <lenglish5 at cox.net>wrote:
>>  I have time on my hands and much interest in this project for many
>> reasons (e.g. serving a LK wiki from seaside). I'll be happy to help however
>> I can.
>> Lawson
>> On 6/22/10 7:58 PM, Philip Weaver wrote:
>> Hi Steve, thanks for writing.
>>  The goal really is to help others visualize what potential Lively has,
>> help modernize, and to keep conversation going. Dan, Jens, Robert, and HPI
>> are always committing to the repository - but Lively needs some more
>> structure (and perhaps illustration support). I'm aware of every web-based
>> toolkit and, still, nothing else compares. Several other web toolkits are
>> very, very polished but nothing else supports direct manipulation and
>> vectors.
>>  Steve, your background is awesome and you have more artistic ability
>> than you may think. I know that you have good taste. :-) The main thing is
>> please try to find time to keep this conversation going to help generate
>> more interest beyond 98 mailing list subscribers.
>>  I hope to add a design document with explanation and goals over the next
>> day or so.
>>  http://tinyurl.com/lively-panel/
>>  Thanks,
>> Philip
>> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Steve Wart <steve at wart.ca> wrote:
>>> My artistic ability is pretty much nil but I wholeheartedly support this
>>> idea. After getting back into Smalltalk after several years of OS X and
>>> iPhone programming it's not a stretch to say the user experience leaves
>>> something to be desired.
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