[lively-kernel] Lively IDE Mockups

Philip Weaver philmaker at gmail.com
Fri Jun 25 04:23:30 CEST 2010


On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Dan Ingalls <danhhingalls at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi, Phil -
> Although I haven't said a word until now, it's only because I was
> travelling and am still juggling a bunch of different responsibilities.
>         I really like what you did.

Grazie Dan. Keeping the dream alive!

 I've been trying to juggle the notions of worlds and menus and palettes for
> the many possible modes of use of  lively, and I think that tab-based
> palette panels are ideal.  Integrating this with browsing is also very cool.
> I made a run at common code for windows and tabs at one point, which should
> reduce the work to merely making palettes work with windows, except it
> appears that code didn't make it through one of the windows updates.  My
> theory was that tabbed panels are exactly like windows from the standpoint
> of the content, and the only real difference is in the behavior of the two
> kinds of tabs.  If I get some time, I'll get this part working again.

I am interested in analyzing traits of among various kinds of controls: list
with multiple selection ~= a column of checkboxes, list with single
selection ~= a column of radio buttons, a column browser is potentially
similar to a tabbed interface, Microsoft's ribbons are really just menus
with a tabbed interface, a hierarchical menu is essentially a compact column
browser. I don't have much more to say about this tonight so I'll probably
just draw.

> The other thought I had, which I've voiced here before, is that we need to
> make it a primary goal to have Lively be the vehicle of choice for us to do
> such mockups and presentations.  It was this commitment that made Squeak
> into the wonderful media tool that it is.  Furthermore, it's just not that
> hard.  If we just had 3 or 4 of us working on it for a month I think we
> could reach a major plateau.

I do understand how this looks. Maybe someday I'll change my email address
from philmaker to troublemaker. ;-) Again, Google Drawings does export to

> So I guess this could be a companion message to yours -- folks who want a
> no-coding project could help you out, and those who want some simple (*)
> coding projects could help make Lively into a better composition
> environment.

> And let's not forget the real challenge:
>     - to be able to build Phil's vision faster in LK than to mock it up
> elsewhere ;-)

These are just some highlights for improving vector illustration support in

* shape library
* shape/morph copy and paste support
* shape/morph undo support
* rework morph selection to be more modern (e.g. do not immediately pickup a
morph on click)
* snap to grid, guidelines
* grouping, locking, visibility, ordering (send to back, send to front)
* continue to refine the styling panel (possibly begin with: the hundreds of
tiny swatch morphs are very slow on old hardware)

- Philip

         - Dan
> (*) truly these are simple tweaks for the most part -- nothing like getting
> WebDAV or SVG working.  If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll post a
> starting task list in the next few days
> Seventy-eight people are subscribed to this mailing list for Lively.
> Eighteen people are subscribed to the digest. I want to find at least one
> individual who has interest in contributing to UI mockups for Lively's
> future and to help keep conversation related to this on this mailing
> list alive daily. No coding involved necessarily and it ought to be fun and
> rewarding.
> I made an effort to get started over at Google Drawings - Google
> Drawings already supports live collaboration. At some point these drawings
> could be exported as SVG and imported into Lively worlds. I'm also currently
> working on a design document to explain some of these drawings and related
> concepts.
> http://tinyurl.com/lively-panel/
> Thanks,
> Philip Weaver
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