[lively-kernel] WebGL projects [was: Re: Lively Kernel as plugin...]

Tommi Mikkonen tjm at cs.tut.fi
Wed Sep 8 17:05:59 CEST 2010

Hi Dan,

great to hear that you are looking at the same stuff!

I was planning to write this email earlier, but wanted to
wait for some time so that we would have our new demo
(3D minigolf) online. We're still extending it with some
new features (mashing up the appearance of the tracks
from other web sites + implementing multiple players),
so it may take a while before it will be online.

Anyways, back to the questions: We've been looking at
WebGL for some time, with the idea of building 3D mashup
applications in our mind.

So far we have looked into a number of different libraries
that ease the use of WebGL API, although some of the
experiments are built on top of the API directly. Some of
the results are online at http://livelygoes3d.blogspot.com/
as Antero emailed you earlier. License is MIT, so
that should be very compatible with LK, and as we
go, I hope that all the new stuff will be put online
as well.

The stuff runs directly inside a browser, assuming that
the browser is WebGL enabled (number of browsers
are not). Qt dependency does not exist, apart from
the fact that Qt WebKit will hopefully in the end
run also our WebGL apps.

As for cooperation, we would of course love it. As our
main goal is to build apps, we would be thrilled to use
LK capabilities for this. So my proposal would be
that we build a 3D version of Lively, the current LK
team managing the platform part and we would then
implement apps on top of that.


Antero Taivalsaari wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> great to hear that you have interest in WebGL as well.
> I'm not directly involved in the Lively3D effort myself.
> Tommi has students working on this project at the
> university.
> There is no dependency on Qt.  The work will be
> fully open, although I don't think there has been
> any discussion about the legalities yet.  So far
> that hasn't been necessary.
> Tommi should be able to answer these questions
> once he's back from France (SEAA conference trip).
> I'll make sure the web links get fixed.  We are not
> updating the web site very frequently, so this may
> take a while.
> Best regards,
> -- Antero
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Dan Ingalls <mailto:danhhingalls at gmail.com>
>     *To:* Antero Taivalsaari <mailto:antero.taivalsaari at tut.fi>
>     *Cc:* lively-kernel at hpi.uni-potsdam.de
>     <mailto:lively-kernel at hpi.uni-potsdam.de>
>     *Sent:* Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:22 PM
>     *Subject:* WebGL projects [was: Re: [lively-kernel] Lively Kernel
>     as plugin...]
>     Great to hear from you, Antero -
>     ...and remarkable timing, as we were just discussing the
>     possibility of working with WebGL as part of an intern project
>     this year.
>      Is there a chance that we could collaborate?
>     Is that work open and, if so, under what license?
>     Is it dependent on Qt?
>     What's the best way to follow the work?
>     All the best
>             - Dan
>     PS:  Could you pass along a suggestion that the Lively at TUT
>     <mailto:Lively at TUT> home page be changed from
>             _...Lively Kernel_ research team at Sun Microsystems
>     Laboratories.
>     to...
>             _...Lively Kernel_ research team at the Hasso Plattner
>     Institute.
>     and that the link be changed from...
>             http://labs.oracle.com/projects/lively/
>     to...
>             http://www.lively-kernel.org/
>     Thanks!
>>     Somewhat related to this topic:
>>     http://livelygoes3d.blogspot.com/
>>     Another comment:
>>     Philip Weaver wrote:
>>     > When Lively was at Sun one of the first implementations
>>     > I think was not browser-based. But that was probably in
>>     > 2007 and Dan, Robert, or Jens can probably better answer this.
>>     That is correct.  The first version of Lively (then known as "Flair"
>>     or "ScriptBrowser" was implemented on top of the SpiderMonkey
>>     JavaScript VM and ran on Windows and Nokia 770/800/810 web tablets.
>>     There's a summary of the ScriptBrowser work in this technical report:
>>     http://research.sun.com/techrep/2008/abstract-177.html
>>     This was a very different beast compared to the Rhino-based
>>     (and later SVG-based) LK implementation that was started a bit later.
>>     -- Antero
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