[lively-kernel] Lively2-rc3

Jens Lincke jens.lincke at hpi.uni-potsdam.de
Wed Oct 26 17:55:42 CEST 2011

Hi, Keith

thanks for your feedback

On 25.10.2011, at 21:17, keith1y wrote:

> Hi Jens, great to hear you are still there, 
> *Informal log of experiences so far:*
> Set up local apache/svn/webdav on Mac OSX without too much trouble. I used
> /Library/SVN as my root so that it would be visible in the Finder. The
> apache dav svn module is present in the distribution (Snow Leopard) but not
> loaded.  LoadModule dav_svn_module libexec/apache2/mod_dav_svn.
> *Exploring*
> In both Firefox/Safari Cmd-S and ctrl-S to save a world does not work as
> advertised. Does in browser code get to override the browsers own key
> bindings? cmd-S is already "save page".
Does it work in chrome or chromium? Yes, we override the key bindings.
Can you describe it as an issue? http://lively-kernel.org/trac/newticket

> Starting from the empty world, look through the world menu. Preferences "set
> user name" the purpose is not obvious. Should it be the same username as my
> webwerkstatt account name? Is it purely for my own use or is it a source
> code identifier (like initials in squeak). Later on I discovered that
> setting it changes the config.js file, so I guess it is expected to match
> the webwerkstatt account name.

Yes, I used it to explicitly set the users home directory, independent from its
login name. We should merge this. 

> World Menu Items have no tool tips, does the framework support tool tips?

Currently, we don't support tooltips. http://lively-kernel.org/trac/ticket/140

> The start up animation, I wonder where that is stored. /It is in
> loading.gif/
it is under media/loading.gif

> The "do you want to leave page" question, I would want to remove that for
> some projects (a world preference) Is there some other uber-preference
> place, like an ini file for an application. In which case the extent and
> username could be set there.
The file is called lively/localconfig.js (for webwerkstatt it is http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/lively/localconfig.js)
It is installation specific . There we set also the:
Config.askBeforeQuit = true;

> Perhaps that is what the config.js is for.
The config.js in each user's directory does the same on a per user basis. 
Customizations per page can be set in the initialize method of "local code" of the SCB.

> From the source, the web page title appears to be set by the filename it is
> stored under. Another preference? Where to override?

the title is explicitly set in:
lively.morphic.World >> saveWorldAs
        var titleTag = doc.getElementsByTagName('title')[0];    
        if (titleTag) titleTag.textContent = url.filename().replace('.xhtml', '');

> *Reading the "command key help" *
> is that info part of the initial download overhead I wonder? 4000 chars.
> Connect Help 1318 chars.
The command key help is fetch out of the trac wiki. An relict. 

> Cmd-e does not seem to work if there is a current selection.
Ask Dan for everything cmd+e related :-)

> Cmd-f "find" requires click focus before it works, am I being picky or what?
No it does not. If it has not focus you can use the fantastic browser find on the page ;-)

> *Thoughts on Parts Bins*
> Parts-bins could use some contextual info, each bin could be a world of its
> own with iconised parts in it. This would allow the bin to
> sell/describe/advertise/demonstrate its parts. When the bin is being viewed
> as a bin it could be in a non-live display form.
Nice idea, but it should not be required to  so. Currently the "bins" are some structuring categories.
Maybe we could have some other Parts that contain PartItems, that can be dragged out. 

Could you sketch what you mean here?

> The biggest thing missing from in all the collaboration systems I have ever
> used is context, a means to communicate user intent. Why I do not know it is
> SO easy. Years ago on the apple developers central server, someone developed
> an application which did absolutely nothing. Its only job was to have an
> ICON. A folder of icons rested on the desktop named "please take one".
> People used these icons all over the place to indicate design/user intent,
> providing context in an informal way. The server "self-organised",
> organically.
> *Learning & Observing*
> Firebug reports that config.js is not found on the server. It appears to be
> looking for /repository/webwerkstatt/users/null/config.js Which I guess
> indicates that the username is not set properly somewhere. Ah ha, if I use
> WorldMenu>Preferences>setUsername then it now looks for
> /repository/webwerkstatt/users/keith/config.js which I think is an
> improvement. It still does not exist, and I don't know how to create it. I
> have not seen any other pages which actually use config.js yet either.
I use my config.js for customizing lively a bit for me. Its my way of turing on some experimental features on a cross page basis.

> Links open in a new tab, this is not standard web behaviour, how to change
> that?
We introduced this because we store a lot of user data unsaved in an open lively page.
Navigating away will throw away all this. So we became very sensitive when it becomes
to closing pages or navigating to other pages.

> Text Field has a menu item - "Convert to annotation" I don't get it, ok so
> you get a pin which has rollover behaviour. what has this got to do with a
> text field? Is it not a different part entirely. 
Ask Lauritz and Fabian. They worked on Annotations. 

> An annotation part, could reveal a whole world when rolled over, the
> annotation-world can contain anything. Ok that is exactly what the pin does,
> so I still don't get the "convert to annotation" menu item.
> *Saving a Part to a Parts Bin*
> I saved a part called Home Link, to the "Worlds" Category, but it has ended
> up "uncategorised".
You can move parts after creation in the "more" menu. 
The new publish dialog should allow all that. 

Thanks again for all you comments. Maybe we will see some more discussion on this mailing list. 
I am intending to use it more like a developers list and not so much as purely for announcements, how it was used before... so thank you for pocking with a stick a bit. 


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