[lively-kernel] R: Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?

[Andy Burnett]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the clarification. I definitely want to use the parts bin
approach. It is exactly what we are looking for.

Do you think the javascript <> Smalltalk translator is something that a
student at HPI would be interested in doing as a project? I would be happy
to support the work.

Cheers
Andy

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Robert Krahn <robert.krahn at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm not very familiar with Amber but what I understand from the
> documentation is that it tries to be very close to Pharo, providing most of
> Pharo's API as well as a class browser that uses a node server for
> compilation / saving Smalltalk / JS code.
>
> For developing applications in Lively we adopted a more object-centric
> approach that has the PartsBin as its central point [1] and does not rely
> on writing code in classes. Developing an application basically means to
> combine existing objects, change their look and behavior. This is done
> interactively using different tools and combines visual interaction with
> writing code. See [2] for an example.
>
> Technically there is no problem to load Amber Smalltalk in Lively and
> write Amber code that manipulates Lively worlds / objects. A proper
> integration, however, requires more work. Tools like the ObjectEditor and
> System Code browser need to support the Smalltalk syntax in order to allow
> using them with the usual process. Of course, you can just develop
> Smalltalk code interactively in a workspaces [3] but this won't give you
> the real "Lively experience".
>
> In the end it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to write
> a conventional web app in Smalltalk you are probably better off using just
> Amber. If you want to use Lively's GUI as well as the PartsBin concept with
> Smalltalk then a proper integration makes sense (tool support, debugging
> support, etc) and Amber might not be the best choice as Lively comes with
> its own API and object system. A possible step brought up by Dan is to
> create some kind of automatic Smalltalk view that would convert JS code
> into Smalltalk when you browse it in the ObjectEditor, for example. At this
> point we do not plan this kind of integration. However, if you want to
> start this kind of project, you can be sure that we do very welcome it and
> I would try to personally support it.
>
> [1]
> http://hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/publications/media/LinckeKrahnIngallsRoederHirschfeld_2012_TheLivelyPartsBinACloudBasedRepositoryForCollaborativeDevelopmentOfActiveWebContent_IEEE.pdf
>
> [2] http://lively-kernel.org/other/how-to-create-a-comment-recorder.mov
>
> [3]
> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-bookmarklets.xhtml
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Andy Burnett <
> andy.burnett at knowinnovation.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lorenzo,
>> It's great to know that I am not alone :-)
>>
>> Let's find out, from Robert, how far we can get with the current ST
>> implementation, and the possibility of incorporating Amber.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2012, at 09:26, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo at edor.it> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Andy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am in the same situation as you: I am very proficient in ST so, please
>> keep me informed about your projects and consider me as an other resource
>> for any kind of projects.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lorenzo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *Da:* lively-kernel-bounces at hpi.uni-potsdam.de [mailto:
>> lively-kernel-bounces at hpi.uni-potsdam.de] *Per conto di *Andy Burnett
>> *Inviato:* mercoledì 25 luglio 2012 15.13
>> *A:* Robert Krahn
>> *Cc:* lively-kernel
>> *Oggetto:* Re: [lively-kernel] Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow! Robert that is absolutely fantastic.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have anything against javascript, but being able to program in
>> Smalltalk makes me so happy :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, a couple of questions:
>>
>>    1. Is ir feasible for me to develop using Smalltalk, i.e. can I save
>>    my code? If so, do I save the smalltalk, or the generated javascript
>>    2. Just in very broad terms, would it be possible to include Amber,
>>    or is it way too difficult?
>>
>>  Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Robert Krahn <robert.krahn at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> We do not use it for main development. I implemented a very simple ST
>> compiler in 2009. It's by far not so advanced as Amber. You can use it by
>> loading the module lively.SmalltalkParser (module(
>> 'lively.SmalltalkParser').load();). See this demo world for more info:
>> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-fun.xhtml
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andy Burnett <
>> andy.burnett at knowinnovation.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>
>> As I was digging around the code - trying to find SortedCollection - I
>> noticed references to a Smalltalk parser.  Does this work? If so, how do I
>> invoke it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lively-kernel mailing list
>> lively-kernel at hpi.uni-potsdam.de
>> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/archive/lively-kernel/attachments/20120806/f4473337/attachment.html>